Friday, August 10, 2012

The Curious Case of John Carter: Secrets and Synchronicities

It's generally a tradition here on The Secret Sun to look at movies long after they've been in the theaters, usually because I like to take the time to analyze them on my computer screen. I also like to be able to post screenshots with captions, since what's being said is often as important as what's being shown.

The takeaway with John Carter was what a bust it was for Disney, who took a 200 million dollar writeoff on the film. But the film grossed almost $300 million worldwide, hardly a flop, especially for a March release. The problem was the budget, but the real problem was the promotion.

The film's writer/director Andrew Stanton is responsible for some of the biggest box office hits of our time, including the Toy Story films, Wall-E, Finding Nemo, and A Bug's Life. But as Richard C. Hoagland pointed out, his name was nowhere to be seen in the promotion or advertising of the film. Very strange.

The title said nothing about the film, with wags citing a so-called "Mars curse" for dropping the "...Of Mars" from the marquee. The "Mars Curse" didn't do the original Total Recall any harm, and the problem with movies like Mission to Mars and Red Planet was their scripts. For starters.

Having seen John Carter, I can say the film was a bit overlong, but was otherwise a very entertaining piece of work. Like a lot of people I was mystified by the campaign against the film being waged by the critics. I saw the same thing happen back in 2008 with the second X-Files movie, but that was a combination of hypnotized Dark Knight fanatics and very possibly some interested parties in Hollywood that didn't appreciate seeing pedophilia being portrayed in a negative light.

Hoagland theorized that John Carter might have been sabotaged by outside forces (such as NASA and the White House) for having revealed certain secrets about Mars, but I wasn't quite sure what he is referring to, not being as in the loop on Mars as he is. But we cover different bases and I got quite a bit out of this film, largely because of his prodding.

Of course, as I write there's a new Mars probe in the news, revealing a planet all too familiar to our own.

There's also new mysteries to puzzle over, as there after every mission. This one here is the latest. I'm sure it will all be explained away once everyone's moved on, but for those still paying attention the enigmas continue to pile up.

Hoagland is best known for his work on Cydonia and the so-called Face and pyramids of Mars, and the links between the Red Planet and Ancient Egypt continue to gnaw at the back of our collective unconscious. There's plenty of that in John Carter, and plenty of high weirdness that wasn't in the original books. It's worth noting that Andrew Stanton is from Lovecraft Country....

Stanton centers John Carter around the worship of the goddess Issus (who references both Isis and Ieusus/Jesus), without the ambivalence and complexity of the books. The battle of Zodanga and Helium in giant galleys reminds the viewer quite a bit of Rome's conquest of Egypt, with Dejah Thoris (read: "Dje is Hathor", dje meaning "holy" or "ascending one") seeming to resonate Cleopatra more strongly than her literary counterpart. As we'll see shortly, that era is referenced in the casting, albeit in reverse.

It should also be noted that Carter's relationship as "right arm" to the green skinned Tars Tarkas is highly reminiscent of Horus' role as same to the green-skinned Osiris. Note Carter is "crowned with the Sun" in the theatrical poster.

But there's also the weirdness, with the Therns bearing little resemblance to their own literary counterparts and playing the part of interplanetary Archons, pulling all the strings from the shadows while the world thinks they no longer exist. They intervene in the world war and throw the balance to Zodanga, giving their leader a devastating weapon that Helium can't resist. The aim of the Therns is to create a new world order on Mars, ending the war and ruling by proxy.

The fact that we first see a Thern materialize out of thin air in the dark and next see them in a formation of three- as well as their appearance-- reminded me of nothing less than the Men in Black, who most people today also think are a myth. We later see that the Therns have shapeshifting technology, and are also well-established on our planet as well. They have the same paralyzing technology they use to abduct Carter that we saw the Elven folk use.

The film is also highly reminiscent of all of the AAT epics we've been seeing lately, such as Crystal Skull, Transformers 2 and Prometheus. We learn about Mars' mythic past and the role of the Therns, who serve the goddess.

You can't help but wonder whose planet we're actually learning about here.

A question I was asking myself when Carter and Dejah reach the Thern temple and discover all of the secret Thern writing, spelling out the teleportation technology and all of the rest of it...

...which is written in Sumerian cuneiform.

Richard said there was a clue that this film was actually about Earth's part- was this it? But I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about where exactly Edgar Rice Burroughs came up with all of this stuff. It certainly wasn't out of the thin air. Indeed, the true source of the Barsoom mythology might be another reason someone was out to "get" John Carter.

Sci-fi legend Fritz Leiber did some digging and found where Burroughs got his inspiration for the classic Warlord of Mars books. It might surprise some people...
Some twelve years ago... I ran across a piece on California cults which contained a summary of Theosophy's speculations about past and future races of earth. What this summary described sounded to me very much like good old Barsoom with its green men, white priests, levitating battleships, egg-laying princesses, and all the rest. In short, I got the impression that Edgar Rice Burroughs had found in Theosophy a rich source of background materials for his Mars books; his chief job seemed to have been adding canals and atmosphere plants...

"There were four-armed human creatures in those early days of the male-females." "Here one thinks of the green Martians with their two pairs of arms." The match is not a perfect one, but Blavatsky's giant, four-armed, Third Race "Lemurians" are more than a little like giant, six-limbed Tharks and Warhoons.

It wasn't just Blavatsky. Later Theosophist writers expanded on her idiosyncratic ideas, including one William Scott Eliott. Leiber:
Scott-Elliot's picture of an Atlantean sub-race, the Toltec... sounds remarkably like Burroughs' red Martians: 'They were ... copper-colored, tall, and with Grecian features. Their science was very advanced. There were Toltec airships which operated by a cosmic force unknown today.'

Scott-Elliot goes on to describe life in Atlantis. "Under the Toltec emperors the Atlanteans were subject to a collectivistic despotism...Their sciences were highly developed. ... In war they fought with swords, spears, bows, and gas-bombs thrown from catapults. Their aircraft were boat-shaped structures made of plywood and light alloys, and propelled by jets of the vril-force ... The emperor had a fleet of aerial warships carrying 50 to 100 men each.."

Lieber read a lot of Theosophist literature-- which I cite in Our Gods Wear Spandex as a crucial influence on 20th Century pop culture-- and found many of the building blocks of the Barsoom Universe:
Instantaneous interplanetary travel by thought power; each planet having its characteristic ray... and airships held aloft by tanks of these rays; Methuselah-size lifetimes of one thousand years;... creation of phantom and living matter by thought power... and finally the oppression and persecution of wise free-thinkers by an evil priesthood.
The parallels are so rich and deep that Leiber was inspired to state the following with utmost certainty:
Burroughs' Martians were essentially Theosophical Atlanteans and Lemurians, removed to a Mars based upon the then popular theories of the astronomer Percival Lowell...

We have not been able to learn just how and when Burroughs acquired his knowledge of Theosophical Atlantism... we are told that his library contained no Theosophical books. But some contact there must have been, for the resemblances are too many for mere chance.

For example, Burroughs' noble Red Martians are derived from the Theosophical Toltecs, one of the Atlantean races. They use flying machines much like those of Theosophical Atlantis. His gigantic, four-armed, popeyed, egg-laying Green Martians are nothing but H.P.B.'s Lemurians transplanted."

Fritz Leiber: "John Carter: Sword of Theosophy,"
Amra, Sept 1959
The whole idea of the Ninth Ray- the terrible technology with which Helium is conquered- also comes straight from Theosophical literature, which theorized about the Seven Rays of the Sun:
There are seven Forces in Man and in all Nature. The real substance of the Concealed (Sun) is a nucleus of Mother-Substance...The Seven Beings in the Sun are the Seven Holy Ones, self-born from the inherent power in the Matrix of Mother-Substance. It is they who send the seven principal Forces, called Rays, which, at the beginning of Pralaya, will center into seven new Suns for the next Manvantara. The energy from which they spring into conscious existence in every Sun is what some people call Vishnu, which is the Breath of the Absoluteness.
To which Burroughs added an Eighth and Ninth. Writer L. Sprague De Camp wrote in Starlog in 1987:
After Blavatsky died, her successors expanded on her account of lost continents and prehistoric races.... the Toltecs, a sub-race of the Atlanteans, were red-skinned and... flew aircraft propelled by vril.... When vril came to Burroughs' attention, he transformed it into the Eighth Barsoomian Ray. Life on Barsoom, with its four-armed giants, its red-skinned heroes and heroines, and its boatlike aircraft resembles nothing so much as life in the Theosophists' Atlantis and Lemuria. But I don't know how or when Burroughs came under their whimsical spell.
The parallels to Theosophist Atlantean and Lemurian mythology aren't the only curious connections that Burroughs has to spiritual ferment of the 19th Century.

Aside from the Barsoom series, Burroughs was also known for his Pellucidar hollow earth adventures, which followed in the footsteps not only of the Rosicrucian Bulwer-Lytton and the Theosophists, but also a religious movement well known today for his enthusiasm for science fiction and fantasy:
(The ten lost tribes of ancient Israel had) "their place of residence... contiguous to the north pole; separated from the rest of the world by impassable mountains of ice and snow."- Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism

The demonstration of this theory will certainly be of interest to all Latter Day Saints, because if found to be true it greatly extends the possibilities of the fulfillment of scripture. For instance, the prophecies in reference to the lost tribes of Israel.

... what do the prophecies say? ... the Book of Mormon... says: "...the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel: and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews." ...The words of the lost tribes have not come to our knowledge yet.

Where are they, and the people who have written them? Not in any known land. They have been led away, we are told. Is it not possible that they inhabit the interior of the earth? If birds and animals may migrate to the interior, as Mr. Reed holds... is it not possible that a human race could also exist there? --William Reed, The Saints' Herald
The whole mythology of lost civilizations was an obsession in the 19th and early 20th Centuries and informs the whole of Burroughs' storytelling. Given the weird parallels not only with the Mormons' hollow earth obsession but the whole mythology of a lost American civilization, it's especially noteworthy that most of the exteriors for the film were shot in Utah.

But as if all that weren't enough, there's still another semiotic strain at work in John Carter...

...and that's the none-too-subtle Jesus symbolism attached to this character. You can start with the initials, shots like the one above and the interplay of the character and crucifixes when he is sacrificing himself to save Dejah and Sola.

There's also the symbolism of the empty tomb, well familiar to readers of the Gospels. This is followed shortly after by Carter entering the tomb to "die" to this Earth and be reborn as the savior of Mars.

Which brings us back to that bit of casting I mentioned before. Although we clearly see Dejah Thoris as the Cleopatra archetype of this fable, the leader of Helium and his right hand man are played by the great Ciaran Hinds and James Purefoy respectively. The former played the definitive Julius Caesar on the HBO Rome miniseries and Purefoy played Mark Antony. They essentially repeat their roles here, given that both were allied with Cleopatra, though as conquerors.

I can't help but think of the theories that argue that Jesus Christ was in fact Julius Caesar, theories put forth by renegade scholars like Francesco Carotta and others. I doubt that was Stanton's intention, but casting Hinds and Purefoy certainly helps add to the classical vibe that puts over the Christian symbolism we see at work.

So with all of this high weirdness and strange symbolism, there was bound to be some major eruption of Synchronicity emanating from the movie screen into consensus reality, and Issus knows there surely was...

Take a good, long look at the Thern Temple. Look at the shape, look at the pedestal form it sits on, almost like a mushroom. The shape is remarkably similar to the Millennium Falcon, don't you think? Here take a look...

Now long after John Carter wrapped up principal photography, a so-called "UFO" was discovered in the Baltic Sea that was also compared to the Millennium Falcon via sonar imaging.

Here's the image that the world first saw.

A subsequent expedition to the site just a few weeks ago revealed a huge object which was compared to a giant mushroom, almost exactly like the Thern Temple. What are the odds? What's more the object has anomalous electrical and radar properties and remains unexplained. Whatever the object turns out to be the synchronicity here is pretty mind-blowing.


The socioeconomic conditions I wrote about in Our Gods Wear Spandex have only worsened and the kind of escapism that was once the exclusive province of weirdos and outcasts like yours truly has gone mainstream. Jack Kirby has gone viral with The Avengers, Alan Moore with Anonymous and its use of the Guy Fawkes mask and Frank Miller has with his own projects as well as the Dark Knight films that ransack his Batman ouevre.

Comic books matter because they are now writing our culture, often in terrible ways like we saw in Aurora.

John Carter is a superhero film, make no mistake about it. But maybe Avatar stole its thunder, telling the same basic story with flashier bells and whistles. But for my money there's a lot more to puzzle over in John Carter. The Therns/Archon link cannot be anything but highly intentional, and it feels to me like one more beat in the AAT revelation waltz.

And the insane sync with the Baltic anomaly is the customary signal that more lies under the surface than meets the eye.


  1. Very fascinating. I'm sure you've also seen the similarity of the Therns/Archons here to the "Engineers"/Archons in Prometheus. They look very similar with bald heads and a sort of blue/dead tone quality to them. Any thoughts on the relationship between the Therns and the Engineers?

  2. Talking about Cleopatra,she died on the 12th August (allegedly by suicide...snake bite)which just happens to be the day of the closing ceremony of the Olympic Games.
    The "Glorious Twelfth" as it is referred to in Britain.

  3. Don't forget that Cleopatra was really from Greek ancestry and not Egyptian.

    " She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a family of Greek origin that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's death during the Hellenistic period.
    The Ptolemies, throughout their dynasty, spoke Greek and refused to speak Egyptian, which is the reason that Greek as well as Egyptian languages were used on official court documents such as the Rosetta Stone.
    By contrast, Cleopatra did learn to speak Egyptian and represented herself as the reincarnation of an Egyptian goddess, Isis.
    While the female name "Cleopatra" was common in this dynasty, none of the earlier Cleopatras gained the lasting fame which the last did."
    So maybe it is fitting that her death is on the closing day of these "Greek" games?

  4. Also reading about
    Alexander and Egypt
    is a bit of an eye opener;

    " Alexander advanced on Egypt in later 332 BC, where he was regarded as a liberator.
    He was pronounced the new
    "master of the Universe" and son of the deity of Amun at the Oracle of Siwa Oasis in the Libyan desert.
    Henceforth, Alexander often referred to Zeus-Ammon as his true father, and subsequent currency depicted him adorned with rams horn as a symbol of his divinity.
    During his stay in Egypt, he founded Alexandria-by-Egypt, which would become the prosperous capital of the Ptolemaic Kingdom after his death "

  5. H. Rider Haggard also fits in here somewhere. I'm not a Haggard expert and haven't read most of his books -- but his lost race novels influenced almost everyone (including Tolkien, whose stories include far more occult elements than is generally acknowledged) and were one place where people like Burroughs were picking up their theosophy second-hand.

    I have a very vague memory of a long-ago fanzine article which I think argued that Haggard's "Cleopatra" was a direct influence on the first three John Carter novels. I could be misremembering that part -- but here's a link to the novel online if anybody wants to have a look:

  6. I understand your desire to view the films after the fact, under more controlled conditions, with the ability to CG dialogue on the screen. But, my gods, we are missing your insights about these movies in the earlier stages of their interactive development, culturally, when they are just being released.

    That's not to take anything away from what you are sharing. Merely wishing for a different temporal possibility, I guess.

    More on the magic of this one, here:

  7. Excellent post -- especially the tie in with the Baltic UFO. I also enjoyed the movie and couldn't help but think about the so-called jump-room to Mars discussed by the folks at Project Camelot.

    And speaking of Camelot, I've been watching the very watered-down Arthurian spin off called Merlin. Bald sorcerers similar to the Thern show up in Season 4. They are called the Catha and they work in iron (red soil) caves. Apparently they show up in later episodes, but I am still making my way through the 4th season.

  8. I've been reading SecretSun on and off for a few years and almost everytime something resonates, I suppose this is due to the human need to feel like you belong, but this really hits.

    I have dreamt about this very post before it was written, perhaps you had a proof written up and I tuned in.

    Anyhow, I have a feeling the whole world is going to forget about this story sharpish and without a trace.

  9. i found some very interesting info on underwater roads and cities in the gulf of mexico, and north mediterranean. the theories are that civilization actually dates back to before the end of the ice age, especially in temperate zones around teh equator. somthin like 10-12k years rather than just 3-4k. i found that indeed many of these locations, tho decimated by the aquatic environment, do show up around where the coastlines are estimated to lie, and like these new pyramids that were discovered w/ google earth, these cities are being found using google earth.

    somthing ive been sitting on for a while now off topic a bit:

    this is a trailer for some survival horror game called the last of us. it caught my attention when it first came out, because of the prominent 322 and the girl character ellie. now ive always liked ellen page, and the thought of this actress being sucked into some sick yale good-old boys nonsense was offensive to me. but it turns out its some other actress, who happens to look just like her?

    and then i found this, writing off the 322 as a reference to a band called... the red dons. a song called room 322 about surviving and escaping a nightmare, sure why not i said.

    but it gets better, apparently with the release of from rome w/ love ms. page has a new stalker, which brought me to this here when poking about, oops it is a video game after all. kinda right up the astro-gnostic conspiracy alley

    and so then i couldnt ignore this here, being the reunion homecoming for a band called garbage in madison WI. a choice quote "Among the Scottish vocalist’s perceived trespasses: cheating on her husband, being “evil,” lying and exerting some kind of mental stranglehold over @Gunn2urhead by using “brain frequencies” and telepathy." the scottish shirley manson has a new stalker as well, also from twitter, also the same time frame as ms. page.

    oh and now look at this guy, wtf Wisconsin and scott(ish) walker

    bringing it back to the american politics is this the day after garbage played w/ the flaming lips.
    [8-10-2012 - New York, NY, USA - Stephest Colbchella Rocktaugustfest '12 with Stephen Colbert, Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum] 8-10-2012 New York, NY, USA
    Stephest Colbchella Rocktaugustfest '12 with Stephen Colbert, Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum
    [8-9-2012 - Madison, WI, USA - Pondamonium, Warner Park]

    and looking at the flaming lips twitter account they almost got rained out 5 min before they were to go onstage, but then it stopped mysteriously. on the 67 anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing.

    sorry for the long synch list, but the red dons thing was too much for me to hold back. i dont know what this means, but it seems damn important and you been talking new language lately chris, so im paying attention now. oh btw m=13 and w=23 so theres that...

  10. just noticed one more thing to add.

    the USS wisconsin battleship museum.

    U.S.S. Intrepid, a decommissioned aircraft carrier is at this moment hosting the colbchella '012 rocktaugustfest.

    id vote for colbert if he got the republican nomination, honestly he cant be worse than reagan amirite?

    deep in the baltic something stirs...
    questions questions

  11. WTF is going on. up until now I always assumed that when people extract memes from the news, movies, shows its just their own personal stuff being projected on them.

    Well, after watching the closing ceremony of the olympics all i got to say is WTF is going on down there.

    Triangle with capstone triangle, dead rituals, hades and Persephone invading the show, phoenix rising etc etc and the pyramid being assembled.

    Chris any thoughts on this?

  12. >"Their aircraft were boat-shaped structures made of plywood and light alloys, and propelled by jets of the vril-force"

    Roswell, anyone?

  13. Fascinating insights, Chris. You're quite the Intuitive, my friend, in the best possible sense. It really makes me muse on the media assassination of the second X Files movie. I haven't seen John Carter yet but will definitely check it out soon. Peace.

  14. I don't think the media didn't have to assassinate the X-Files movie. The movie was pretty lame in its own right; not to mention releasing a non-blockbuster movie in the Summer was a terrible idea also.

  15. I decided to watch John Carter after you wrote this post. I am currently going through HBO's Carnivale, and I noticed a similarity between the two, with the "blue blood" concept. I think you've discussed the united nation mural with the blue people here on this blog? At one point in Carter, the main character is splattered with blue blood, making him a "blue man." And in carnivale, the main character, when he is at a templar temple, searching for clues about his past, states "Im not human either." Up to this point he has no reason to make this specific assertion. All that he could really say from the evidence is that he is a human with special abilities. Just wondering if you had any thoughts on that, Chris.

  16. I have to comment an a few points that I sincerely hope will help to further decypher this riddle:

    - Dejah Thoris and her resonance with Cleopatra is very significant, especially after reading "Dje is Hathor". Cleopatra was of the Ptolemaic dynasty, but they weren't of Greek ancestry. Alexander was Macedonian and Ptolemy was his best general, that's why he was left as a ruler of Egypt. If you've read Demosthenes, you've noticed that he named the Macedonians "barbarians" because they didn't share neither the language, nor the customs. The interesting part comes with "Dje..." because "Dze" is the name of the ancient Macedonian Sun-God. A couple of years ago two Macedonian scientists translated the middle text of the Rosetta Stone into ancient Macedonian language, if you're into long reads you have the whole paper in the link (
    Btw, my first name is Dejan (where 'j' is read as a 'y') and the dictionary of etymology says that the name originates from "Deus", the Roman word for God.

    - On the Ninth ray, Kaballah is a great source. The Kaballistic Tree of Life consists of 9 circles, which represent the arches, or celestial spheres that the soul travels through on both it's "setting" way (from it's eternal etheric form towards Earth to inhabit the body) and it's "rising" way back 'home' (after human death). The order of ascent/descent of the soul are the 7 celestial bodies - Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon, wherein the 1st and 9th chambers are the beginning and the end of the journey, Earth and The Stars. Kaballah teaches that the Earth is the lowest chamber (the soul's decent) which means the Ninth Ray is the place of the soul's origin. Gaining mastery of the 9th ray unlocks Enochian wisdom of conquering the cube (triumph over physical death and access to the Acashic records). JC anybody?

  17. I rented the movie since I missed it in the theaters, and was surprised how good it really was and wondered who the film pissed off to be punked so badly by the critics. Lots of interesting in your face winky wink stuff..

  18. Watched this film last night and am completely bewildered as to how it did so badly.
    Well, perhaps not so much. The film's reputation was destroyed by the thoughtpolice cabal that insist on do other's thinking for them.
    An element of the entertainment industry, a highly inflential one, certainly seemed to have a deep, strong grudge of malevolent proportions towards this movie.

    Also, when you compare it to something like Prometheus - which unlike you Chris, I think had *some* redeeming features, as well as a marked and heavy resonance with what is going on with our world soul - which was a siren call to humanity as a species for collective despair, existential angst, fear, pain, hate, escalating violence to an interplanetary level as a higher calling; John Carter possessed unbridalled hope, the eternal sense of *new* possibility for our lives, and the keystone of the ever fecund world of the imagination that can populate our lives with the former (what was it that Tars Tarkus said about Carter representing the hope that something new could come into the world, instead of there being, for the sake of argument, nothing new under their alien sun?); that perhaps irked so many to go to such lengths as to damn the film before it was ever seen by the general public.
    Also, it was very funny, and fun.

    John Carter is heretical viewing , I would say, when it comes to Hollywood corporate orthodoxy.

    Almost certainly much was left on the cutting room floor, so I hope for a director's cut of some kind in the future.

    But I really loved this film. Had its flaws, was somewhat light, but still, much enjoyed for all the reasons I have mentioned.

  19. Dan Zukovic's "DARK ARC", a bizarre symbolist modern noir dark comedy called "Absolutely brilliant...truly and completely different..." in Film Threat, was recently released on DVD and Netflix through Vanguard Cinema (, and is currently
    debuting on Cable Video On Demand. The film had it's World Premiere at the Montreal Festival, and it's US Premiere at the Cinequest Film Festival. Featuring Sarah Strange ("White Noise"), Kurt Max Runte ("X-Men", "Battlestar Gallactica",) and Dan Zukovic (director and star of the cult comedy "The Last Big Thing"). Featuring the glam/punk tunes "Dark Fruition", "Ire and Angst" and "F.ByronFitzBaudelaire", and a dark orchestral score by Neil Burnett.


    ***** (Five stars) "Absolutely brilliant...truly and completely different...something you've never tasted
    before..." Film Threat
    "A black comedy about a very strange love triangle" Seattle Times
    "Consistently stunning images...a bizarre blend of art, sex, and opium, "Dark Arc" plays like a candy-coloured
    version of David Lynch. " IFC News
    "Sarah Strange is as decadent as Angelina Jolie thinks she is...Don't see this movie sober!" Metroactive Movies
    "Equal parts film noir intrigue, pop culture send-up, brain teaser and visual feast. " American Cinematheque

  20. Very wierd, I actually bought a copy of John Carter on DVD after reading this, and watched it last Saturday.

    Then later the same day this ( shows up at the end of the opening episode of the new series of the BBCs Merlin

    It's not yet been explained in the plot, just some unknown archon/thern/grey hiding in a cave.

  21. good insights on john carter; although u left out some other interesting points, probably for your own safety. questions are the only answers - so why does Gargamel and Azreal love to eat Smurfs - ask the Therns or the Goddess. wait... don't ask the goddess, it costs too much.

  22. This is all from the Mystery Schools aka Mystery Babylon school of thought: Freemasonry, Rosicrusians, Illuminati etc. The store, themes and symbols are all the same.

  23. Like many here, I just watched the film and enjoyed it. I can only concur with the comments here about the symbolism. Too bad it did so badly.

  24. Movie panned because "Thern Consiracy" added by Director. No hint of same in ERB novel.

  25. It's hard to come by well-informed people on this topic, however, you seem like you know what you're talking about!

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