Monday, February 22, 2010

Nazi UFOs, or Plan Nein from Outer Space

The old 'Nazi UFO' meme is floating around again. Dave Emory's been taking about it for ages, never failing to toss in his "green-eyed aliens from Uranus" joke that just gets funnier every time he repeats it (and he's been doing so as long as I can remember). It's all part of his Robert Ludlum-like master conspiracy theory of Germany taking over while the rest of the major world powers look on helplessly. Emory does excellent research, but his analysis? I don't know.

Flying saucer over America, 1920

But the Nazi UFO meme has an internal logic, in that it ostensibly accounts for the appearance of flying saucers after the war. The only problem is that flying saucers and UFOs have been around a lot longer than since 1947. Like Ancient Egypt longer. Like prehistoric rock art longer. There are lots of other problems for me but let me just make note that Joseph Farrell's new book is picking up on the meme as well, vis a vis Roswell:
In Roswell and the Reich alternative science and history researcher Joseph P Farrell presents a very different scenario of what crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in July 1947, and why the U.S. military has continued its cover-up to this day. By means of a meticulous review of the best-known Roswell research from both UFO-ET advocates and skeptics alike, as well as some not-so-well known Roswell research, Farrell presents a fascinating case sure to disturb both ET believer and skeptic alike, namely, that what crashed may have been representative of an independent postwar Nazi power, an extraterritorial Reich monitoring its old enemy, America, and its continuing developments of the very technologies it confiscated from Germany at the end of the war.
Hoagland's been on the case too, writing this in his massive Norway Spiral piece, namechecking Richard Dolan, whose video we watched here a few months back. Hoagland claims that the secret space program is actually a secret Nazi army flexing its muscles to the big world powers.

Now that could all be so, and Farrell's thesis could be correct as well. But I don't know how much that has to do with the alleged saucers in the 40s. Let me also point out that Fortean Times addressed the issue in a major article a few years back and the author Kevin McClure concluded thusly:
Secondly, there is no historical evidence – physical or photographic – of the supposed flying discs. We are repeatedly told of craft of immense power, and sometimes immense size, defying all scientific parameters known before or since. Yet not so much as a bolt or a tachyon drive remains to verify their existence. There are just the oft-reproduced, fuzzy post-war photos taken by those who wished to convince us of saucer reality, but who usually succeeded only in demonstrating the unexplored potential of domestic containers and the art of close-up photography.
A lot of Emory types point to the "foo fighters" as proof of the German saucers, but in point of fact the actual phenomenon was quite a bit different than your average flying saucer:
The first sightings occurred in November 1944, when pilots flying over Germany by night reported seeing fast-moving round glowing objects following their aircraft. The objects were variously described as fiery, and glowing red, white, or orange. Some pilots described them as resembling Christmas tree lights and reported that they seemed to toy with the aircraft, making wild turns before simply vanishing. Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with their aircraft and behaved as if under intelligent control, but never displayed hostile behavior.
If these were German aircraft defending the Fatherland, then why wouldn't they display hostile behavior? These foo fighters sound a lot more like the objects we've seen chasing the space shuttle around (which strike me as some kind of surveillance drone, rightly or wrongly). Those too could be part of the secret Nazi space program, but I'm not really feeling it.

Now, we have seen a lot of photos that look like they're of German provenance, but the funny thing is that most of the "craft" look like something out of an Ed Wood movie. And, oh yeah, most of them aren't flying. And the ones we see flying are obvious fakes. The ones we see on the ground don't match the ones in the air, and there seem to be way too many different models on offer to boot. Which would make sense if it was all smoke and mirrors, not so much if it were a real weapons program at a time when most of Germany's factories were rubble.

So how and why were these photos made? I'd suggest two possibilities. First- we know of all kinds of propaganda gambits during the war (the Allies even made inflatable scale models of airplanes to throw German recon off) and it could be that the Germans wanted the Allies to believe that they'd mastered this technology that had been seen in the sky for centuries, or perhaps had cut a deal with the saucer men themselves. Classic psych-out propaganda.

Or it could also be that the Brits or the US faked it all long after the fact to create doubt in the minds of the public in the wake of the saucers scares- particularly in the wake of the Washington flyovers in 1952. Joe Sixpack would sleep easier knowing the saucers were birds we stole from the Jerries and were fixing to use on the Reds, than if he thought the saucers were alien and there wasn't a damn thing Uncle Sam could do about it.

I'm sure we've got a lot of exotic flying tech up there, but how exotic I'm not sure. Call me crazy, but I still think that something that wasn't ours could well have come down at Roswell and that might account for the transistor and all sorts of other new toys hitting the market not long after.

It's a funny thing, a lot of people will believe pretty much anything before they believe that there could be non-human intelligences flying around up there for reasons unknown to us. I've never understood it but there are a lot of people who just can't deal with the possibility of ET. And it's usually people who like to fancy themselves as smarter than everyone else.


  1. @Chris,
    sometimes it is good and healthy to remain skeptical... in the true meaning of the word and not the perversion of it that is most prevalent today.

    'In lieu of the lack of concrete proof either way in any argument you reserve the final judgement'.

    Being dogmatic in any way is surely more harmful than beneficial.

    Welcome to the MATRIX...Mr Anderson


  2. Obviously you can see why I count myself amongst the many dumbasses of the World...LOL!

    ya, let's try it this way instead:
    "'In lieu of concrete proof either way in any argument you reserve the final judgement'."


  3. I've always wondered about crashed saucers like Roswell because if it was indeed an extraterrestrial craft then it would seem that throws out John Keel's take on UFOs and them being Ultraterrestrials.
    I become very intrigued with Keel's almost acid-like acounts of aliens but then again there's those eyewitnesses that describe seeing the actual nut and bolts crafts and their inhabitants.

  4. I thought i would share this link for a "lighter" view on the subject.

  5. The mercurial nature of UFOs, cryptos, et al. is hard (impossible?) to pin down as it is both everything and nothing that people think it is. Its all about Imagination - the BIG 'I' kind. 'Aliens'? Yes... and No. Nazis? Yes... and No...

    Crazy syncs like Ms. Bishop of Braintree are elevated to a whole new level if we consider that - especially for peeps who are tightly wound up in the ego and modern binary thought - perhaps sometimes projections become possessions. Consider that perhaps if the 'medium is the message' (the medium being big 'I' Imagination) then 'possessions' are more than simply things that are owned. Kinda puts McLuhan and Fort into a new light...

    Folks hoping to grok this stuff really ought to do a deep dive into works like George Hansen's The Trickster and the Paranormal as well as Patrick Harpur's Daemonic Reality, The Philosopher's Secret Fire, and Mercurius. Harpur's lucid work in particular, IMO, may be the most promising modern 'take' on the things that go 'bump' and 'zoom' in the night.

    Chris, as you are fond of Jung, I cannot recommend Harpur enough (ESPECIALLY Mercurius)! No easy read, it puts everything into a completely new perspective...

  6. I loved Dave Emory's radio rants all thru the 90s on WBAI but it seemed like he started contradicting himself around '05 and asking that we actually TRUST certain parties he'd earlier been saying were all Nazi-ed up... 'Fascist Elements within'. Worth Noting!! Evidentiary Tributaries!! I should go see what he's up to lately...

  7. I'm sure someone much smarter than me once said that the only difference between a smart person and a dumb one is that smart people don't think they have all the answers.

  8. Headline on Huff's mainpage:
    PHOTOS: 17 Amazing Bathrooms From The Future

  9. WRT DAve Emory, I agree with your assessment. His research skills are unassailable, but I can't help but think the world would look quite different if his analysis were true.

  10. Chris - have you seen this? Story on Joe Stack's daughter, reporting from her home in Norway.

  11. If I've learned anything about the UFO phenomenon, it's that Occam's razor cuts as many different ways as there are "explanations" to be considered. The simple truth is, whatever the truth is, it ain't so simple.

    And those people you're talking about--the ones who fancy themselves smarter than everyone else--most hilariously pronounce their ultimate knowledge on the subject from behind a Ph.D., which I'm beginning to suspect might stand for "Phactually Disinformed."

  12. The Nazi Ufo meme is fun, but completely non-sensical. If the Nazi's are technologically so far ahead of the rest of the world, why do they operate in secret at all? If they had this technology, they would have conquered our asses years ago, and the whole world would be swathed in swistikas and statues of Adolf. A lot of conspiracy theories depend on the idea of groups that possess an immense amount of power, but paradoxically never use it openly. It's kind've like the idea of America creating the Bomb, and never actually using it(or telling anyone they have it.) This is one of the reasons why I suspect no earthly power has ET technology - sooner or later, you'd have to use it publically, or the benefits of having it in the first place would begin to be very tenuous.

  13. Looks to me that these things would do a hell of a rackett if only they could take off.

  14. In the mid 90's, I stayed for a month in the Indian Hill Station of McCleod Ganj, Dharamsala, where I became friends with a guy who, when I first noticed him was teaching two Tibetan sisters english by using lines from the 'The Pink Panther' and Monty Python, which they loved.

    I learned later on that he was really freaked-out by a UFO experience he'd had a few weeks earlier.

    He and 2 other people, whilst staying overnight in a high mountain spot called Triund, were sitting watching the stars when they noticed a very bright light moving high overhead. This light decided to stop and stay still, giving the group the impression that they were being watched, a consciousness, whatever it was.

    After getting excited and panicky and jumping around, with a fair few "What do we do?"s , my friend decided to shout out:

    "Flash if you're friendly"

    .......Well, They Did!

    Maybe Dr Steven Greer has something?

    Nanu Nanu x

  15. Somewhat off the immediate topic, but probably of interest re:AAT, etc.: TURKISH TEMPLE OLDER THAN CIVILIZATION

  16. I remember reading stories, could be total BS, that, up until days before the invasion, Saddam Hussein's scientists had him convinced he did, in fact, possess nuclear weapons. Maybe the same sort of situation was happening in Nazi Germany?

  17. Hey, Anonymous,

    Here's a Newsweek story on that 11,500 year old temple in Turkey:

    My favorite quote? "The ruins are so early that they predate villages, pottery, domesticated animals, and even agriculture—the first embers of civilization."

    A civilization that predates civilization! Ha!

  18. OK, I'm over doing it with the comments today, but, Chris, the temple's pillars are said to be 17 feet high.

  19. Guys, I'll dig in with these in a while. In the meantime, check out the Solar Satellite reboot...

  20. Royal astronomer: 'Aliens may be staring us in the face'
    Aliens may be “staring us in the face” in a form humans are unable to recognise, the Queen’s astronomer has said.

  21. PS: Steve Wilner says what?!?

    Skip to 7:17

  22. have you heard the stories about rogue nazi factions inhabiting bases in antarctica? they fly in and out of the supposed entrances at the poles into a vast labyrinth of underground tunnels. it's pure boys own stuff. we do however know that ex-party members fled to south america through the odessa organisation and there are even rumours of the catholic church's involvement, which wouldn't surprise me particularly in light of the present 'holy father'. then there's project paperclip.

  23. judging from that photo i think that Lord Martin Rees, president of the Royal Society and Astronomer to the Queen is an alien! i like the idea that digital tv signals are cutting through the 50 light-year shell of radiation caused by analogue transmissions.

  24. I have to agree with Tristan's points about any government having Alien technology, it would have surfaced long ago if it was the case. I have to add, Truth is always stranger than fiction when you consider things like Project Paperclip, and the Governments that were harboring Nazi's back then. I've always had trouble, not taking with a grain of salt, those stories of Nazi UFOs based on the Moon. Sorry, but such stories play like bad pulp fiction, and they undermine legitimate questions.

  25. Re: Alan's...Royal astronomer: 'Aliens may be staring us in the face' Thanks for the link, Alan!

    Just Great! The stuff of nightmares. The "Royal" societies, etc. are having a jolly old time with this. Staring at us how, though? As lab rats, equals, superiors, with disdain or perhaps as the butt of Milky Way Galaxy jokes?

    Chris wrote:

    "I've never understood it but there are a lot of people who just can't deal with the possibility of ET. And it's usually people who like to fancy themselves as smarter than everyone else."

    Gee whiz, Chris!

    I'm not the brightest bulb in the box and an idiotic storyline on my favorite soap can discombobulate me for weeks; yet it would take a lot of agonizing soul searching for me to deal with a legitimate possibility of ET!

    We all have to deal with the deeply entrenched "truths" society has fed us all our lives. And if one can't deal with it? What to do but resign oneself to it?

    (Insert theme from "The Road to Perdition" here.)

    Quite often I regret learning so much from the Secret Sun, other great blogs in this genre and, of course, from all the very knowledgeable commenters here. Once learned though, there's no turning back...and that's a double-edged sword.

    There's a lot to be said for the old saying:
    Ignorance is bliss!

    Thanks, Chris!

  26. Hi there,

    Been reading this awesome blog for a while now. I know this is a bit off topic, and sorry if it's already common knowledge, but I was deeply struck by the significance of this report:

    Resurrection (in) Kali!

    Warm regards,

  27. What is fascinating about this discussion is exactly THAT: the nature of belief. The mechanics of belief. It's a tricky spiral- and of course we really know nothing (except that we know nothing which means we know something which.....ooops)

    When I briefly went mad as a late teen back in the late 70's- never paranoid and perhaps NOT delusional- I clearly saw the world as surrounded by "essences","beings", who moved at rates much faster than us- and some were Good and some were Evil. They could arrange synchronicities- that's how fast they operated.

    They did not need spaceships. Of which there is absolutely ZERO physical evidence. even though they have been here since before ancient Egypt? So why believe in the nuts and bolts?

    if a society with secrets that believes it came from the stars actually does have physical control of most pop culture media- and military intelligence- and you spend all your time examining pop culture media- perhaps there is a level of hypnotic mind control happening. The truth is much weirder than saucers. Hypnosis is as key to the human condition as food and shelter.

    PEACE! cauldron

    Patrick Harpur IS amazing!

  28. Well, I was going to weigh in here but it seems there's already an excellent cross-section of opinions and viewpoints here! Well done, Secret Sun readers.

    Weigh the data, decide for yourself- always my MO! And as always, your links are greatly appreciated...

  29. @ Alan Abbadessa and the YouTube link:

    You said to skip to 7:17

    Seriously? 7:17.


  30. Hello Christopher,

    I found this for you. UFO's, dolphins, and X-Files in one article.

  31. Speaking of 17s:

    Us to unveil broadband plan March 17th:

    and Bonuses up 17% on Wall Street:

    By the by, I happened to see a CNN segment on the UK UFO files, if you can even call it a segment. They spoke about it laughingly for about a minute while showing some "extracts from the files" which looked like the most ridiculous drawings you can imagine. If CNN is any evidence, disclosure is a long way off.