What the Heaven Happened?

"Let me make it clear . . . I am a Christian. Jesus is who saved me.
He’s what keeps me full and whole."- Miley Cyrus

Unbelievable, isn’t it? But none of this is happening in a vacuum.

Once upon a time some of the greatest secular music artists came out of the Church- and many of them never left. Artists as diverse as Johnny Cash, Aretha Franklin, Elvis Presley, Marvin Gaye, and Sam Cooke did some of their most fiery and passionate music in the Gospel field. But can you name a single modern Christian Contemporary artist? There are some popular artists - the Oannes Brothers come to mind- who are Christian and work in a pop idiom but what about in a religious one?

Is that the best they can do?

Even if I don’t follow the faith any longer, I still love old fashioned foot-stomping Gospel music- the real Azusa Street kind of stuff. To me it’s got all of the power of punk rock- it’s punk rock in robes. But wouldn’t listen to a CCM artist if you tied me a chair. What the hell- or in this case, what the Heaven happened? I think the answer to that question might tell us something about where my country has gone wrong.

Every Christmas I peruse the local Evangelical bookstore looking for presents for some family members and I am always stunned by the derivative nature of the items on display. There isn’t a single original idea to be found. Everything is a Christianized imitation of some secular genre or style. Christian sports stories, Christian detective stories, Christian sex manuals, Christian heavy metal, Christian self-help books- it’s all second-hand recycling of old mainstream ideas.

But Christian pop is by far the worst offender here- no style, no matter how profane in its origin is off limits. I’m still waiting for the Evangelical Lady Gaga- and I have a feeling I won’t be waiting long. We heard an army of Evangelical Britney Spears clones, many of whom were as scantily dressed as the original. But the point is that you can’t Christianize that kind of slut pop, or death metal or punk- because the assumptions of the music itself are based explicitly in transgression, whether it’s sex or violence. Writing vaguely devotional lyrics isn't going to change that.

So, why is it that Evangelicals seem so unable to produce their own original pop culture phenomena that they need to appropriate any work they can find produced by a nominal Christian? The Evangelical movement is a multibillion-dollar goliath that boasts at least 100 million adherents in the United States alone- can’t even one of them produce something on the level of popularity of a Star Wars? The only thing that comes close is the Left Behind series, a case of preaching to the converted if ever there was one (and preaches non-Biblical doctrine as well). But given the tens of millions of dollars Left Behind has put in Tim LaHaye’s pockets, why can’t he get a decent movie into the mulitplexes?

The answer may have something to do with the way Evangelicals communicate. The Evangelicals’ native medium is the spoken and written word (or Word), hence their thinking is usually linear. The immense pressure to conform and submit to authority might also destroy any native creativity a young Evangelical might have. This is the why the fiction, films and music they produce are so derivative and impotent. Great art comes from breaking the rules.

They have honey-tongued preachers that can talk the money out of the most hard-bitten atheist’s wallet (using very ancient NLP techniques), but since most American Evangelicals are relentlessly discouraged from thinking as individuals ( a problem that's gotten much worse since Obama's election), their powers to create original work are stunted. There are plenty of very capable musicians and craftsmen that are Evangelicals, but most of the work you see they produce is usually a weak imitation of superior secular work.

So when the secular world comes knocking, the most talented Christian artists are probably going to answer. And since what we call pop these days is like Jean Genet’s and Michel Foucault’s most transgressive wet dreams come true, we’re inevitably going to end up with that display up top.

You can spin all kinds of interesting theories about where it all comes from- and you might make a fortune running a website devoted to it. But what it really speaks to in my mind, is not so much sorcery as creative bankruptcy and desperation. Some guys might see the hatching of evil millenia-long plans, I just see flop sweat. I only see prostitution. (And seriously- if anyone out there is really afraid of a Jay-Z or a Lady Gaga video, go change your god-damned diaper).

If you bring this up state of affairs to an Evangelical, they always cite Tolkien and C.S. Lewis in response. But does that make any sense? Never mind that both of these writers were part of a much, much older, high-church tradition that would see modern American Christianity as the spawns of the deepest pits of Hell. But then again, there’s yet another point to be made here.

Having both read the Lord of the Rings books and seen the movies, I am dumbstruck- what exactly is Christian about them? Elves, fairies, trolls, wizards, talking trees- this is pure Anglo-Saxon paganism. Is Gandalf a Christ figure beause he resurrects himself? Christian doctrine reserves that power for Jesus Christ alone, and according to Christian dogma, anyone who claims that power not expressly bearing the name of Christ is antichrist. At least that’s what I was taught, back when you were taught to read the Bible in church, and not The Purpose-Driven Life or the latest Ann Coulter book.

The same goes with Lewis. Aslan in The Chronicles of Narnia is said to be a metaphor and parable about Christ (which it really isn't, as we’ve seen), but again- claiming Christ’s power without explicitly glorifying the name of Christ is forbidden as idolatry in Christian theology. Where is the name of Christ glorified in Lord of the Rings or Narnia? How is the fact that Gandalf practices occult arts - expressly forbidden by the Bible - overlooked by his Christian apologists?

Despite what a lot of people might think, I'm not anti-religion. I'm anti-junk religion. And sadly, junk religion is all we got these days. Maybe this is what happens when great ideas die.


  1. I always found it kinda comical that a natural value anagram of


    Hey, don't blame me, I didn't create the word nor the rules governing word value equivalencies!


  2. The Christianity of the Lord of the Rings and Narnia is not explicit, but implicit. The genius of each, though, is that it isn't exclusively Christian (though I do think that Narnia is more of a co-optation of pagan themes in Christian service, but that's a point that I admit is arguable).

    In the Narnia books, specifically, there is repeated, nearly explicit, allusion to the idea that Aslan is known as Jesus in our world. The books do assume a reader in a culture that is aware of Christ, but that's not a bar to the direct allusion.

    The Lord of the Rings, however, is nominally set at a time prior to the coming of Jesus, and so operates instead from fundamental cosmological assumptions that are at least compatible with, and actually very much derived from, Christian metaphysics. Still, Professor Tolkien's Christianity was very deeply informed by his studies of Anglo-Saxon literature, so a note (or more) of pagan themes are unsurprising there.

  3. Hi Chris. Well you hit a nerve with me here.

    Chris said..."Despite what a lot of people might think, I'm not anti-religion. I'm anti-junk religion. And sadly, junk religion is all we got these days. Maybe this is what happens when great ideas die."

    Don't worry Chris, The NWO is planning a new everything including a new relgion. You stated it clearly yourself...JUNK Religion...that all we got. Actually that's all we ever had & ever will have. After reading and studied and living religion for over 50 years... you know what I found out...it's all made up, literally, & people are finally catching on to it. So thats why the Elites of the world, which I have mentioned many times on your blog as well as my own, have very clear plans for mankind or humanity as we call it. The Elites are generally Freemasons, not in a good way either. They plan to create:

    1. new world order
    2. new money system, new currancy (world central bank)
    3. one world leader
    4. new world religion
    5. HARRP to control the weather & much more distructive power like earthquakes & volcanos, etc.
    6. USA is in ever war on the planet. We have miltary bases in over 130 countries out of about 190 in the world. Why? Because the USA will be the WORLD POLICE force, the brutes...the Enforcers.
    7. Here is a prediction, Princess William will be 33 years old in 2015...he will be your next Jesus of the world. That will come after mass destruction of the planet & about 6 Billion dead (their words not mine, read the Georgia Guide Stones, it explains this very well)

    A bit of the Profile...“William has so much sheer personal confidence for his age, but it has absolutely nothing to do with his position,” observes one Royal insider. “At the same age, his father was a mess of uncertainties. William always seems to know where he’s going and he always gets what he wants.” As he reaches adulthood, Prince William has already demonstrated that he possesses the maturity, sensitivity and strength he will need to rise to his destiny as the future of the Monarchy." He's being groomed for the JOB.

    8. The realm of the Cassini Project: aka Lucifer Project. There is 73lbs of nuclear/bomb grade plutonium, in orbiting around Saturn & has been there since 2003. Enough power in that little satilite to light up Saturn and create a new sun. They were supose to egnite Saturn in 2008 but didn't pull the trigger. I think they are waiting for 2012, which is no suprise.

    Yes with confusion of a two sun solar system & all the wars & so called natural destruction on the planet of earthquake, volcanos, fires, floods, disease, etc...sound like a creation of a new religion through fear as usual.

    There's much more but I'll stop here.

    I know many of you think I'm fear mongering, I'm not. All you have to do is look around and open your eyes. Be aware, watch, wait & don't react and you'll be fine.


  4. Chris, I may have posted some of this information before but it's appropiate to the topic.

    Religion, wielding the twin weapons of guilt & fear, was the first strategy employed to manipulate the world. Did you ever wonder where religion came from? I don’t mean, why do people turn to religion and worship gods? Sure, when things get tough, people feel a need to call on something to save them from their predicament. But where did the very concept and this need for religion originate? Why was there a predicament in the first place? Once this problem was introduced into the scheme of things, why was there a response from the people that they needed to be saved? And of course, once the population responded to the problem, who came up with the notion of worshipping a god?

    In Psalm 14:1 we are told that “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.”

    Now if this is the word of god, and for that matter, if god were really a wise and great creator, I might be a tad shaken by these words. What follows may appear foolish, but to the open minded, it may be a breath of fresh air.

    You see, this bible quote was written by the luciferian mind, the corrupt entity that rules the planet. There is no god, there is only the luciferian mind of corruption that conjures up the 3D reality we are experiencing. In fact, the bible and every religious book written is inspired by the corrupt entity that governs the illuminati agenda. Every religious book, that includes every science text, every new age bestseller, every book on esoteric magic, every astrological & numerological notion, everything!

    Consider the question – Where did religion come from? I’m talking all religion, including atheism. Yes, even atheists are religious zealots. Even though I state there is no god I am not an atheist in as much as I do recognize infinite awareness and wisdom do exist. This awareness and wisdom is NOT SPIRIT, neither does it have any connection to learned knowledge. The worship of a creator, a supreme being who cares if I’m good or bad, and I better obey, I don’t buy it!

    Everything that everyone does is the result of his or her particular religion. It doesn’t matter the lifestyle we choose to lead, we are all duped into being religious dogs for the luciferian mindset, constructed to imprison humanity’s awareness. We all have been thrust into this religious system called the 3 dimensional reality & we exist in a hypnotic stupor, bewildered by it all.

    However, we don’t need to exist this way. Quite simply, we don’t need to buy it anymore. The whole 3D experience is symbolized in the short little word - BUY.

    BUY – is an accurate reference to the former World Trade Centre.

    These 2 towers symbolize Boaz and Jachin or Gachin, the two pillars flanking the entrance to the old Hebrew Temple. B for Boaz. J/G or Y for Jachin/Gachin, as there is no jay or jee or gutteral guh sound in Hebrew. These two pillars together enunciate as BY or BuY. This was the World Trade Centre: the mighty symbol of commercialism in the world. The system of BuYing.

    A little more next. Enjoy!

  5. continued...Religion had to be established. Religion is based on the concept that the priests know something of the unknown. In other words, they claim to have the wisdom or all seeing ability to understand the hidden things of the universe. The All Seeing Eye of Horus of ancient Egypt, the All Seeing Eye of Freemasonry, the Holy See of Catholicism, the great I Am – Eye Am of Judaism (and every spin-off organization) are all based on trickery found within the structure of a light beam.

    Did you ever wonder why there’s an all seeing eye on the back of the freemason-designed US dollar bill? Or why is the pope (pope – papa – pop-eye – poppy) referred to as the holy see? Or why does religion embrace such symbols as the cross, the swastika, the six pointed star, etc. which are symbols of the all seeing eye?

    Religion, including atheism and new age thought, is rooted in luciferianism – the hidden mystery mind. Pretending to know something doesn’t make one wise. The occult organizations know that all they’re doing is manipulating light energy. It’s not a big secret. However, if the gimmick is dressed in religious and scientific garb, people will believe the ark/arc of the covenant is really the presence of god in a box. It is a matter to cause electricity to arc and ultimately, electrocute whoever touches the box. This describes the Ark of the Covenant Chest of Hebrew folklore.

  6. You forgot Harry Potter as a good example of christian art, especially the last book. It has all the JC memes, sacrifice for others and resurrection, resisting evil.

  7. Chris-Evangelical Christianity is the ultimate zombie religion. It makes people who follow "the secret" look like noble warrior-poets in comparison. Shows how tightly people will cling to familiarity and a sense of being on a "winning team" no matter how uninspired it may be. Sad thing is, if an Evangelical with original ideas actually started cranking out some good stuff they'd probably get burned at the stake.

  8. Mark Trueblood said...
    "Chris-Evangelical Christianity is the ultimate zombie religion. It makes people who follow "the secret" look like noble warrior-poets in comparison. Shows how tightly people will cling to familiarity and a sense of being on a "winning team" no matter how uninspired it may be. Sad thing is, if an Evangelical with original ideas actually started cranking out some good stuff they'd probably get burned at the stake"

    That's my point. Religion creates DUALITY. So if you believe in one thing and the masses (actually the elites control the masses) believe in some thing differnt, you are picked on, scorened, rejected, or worse punishment...or even death.

    But the the real suffering is in the fact that we are apparantly BORN in bondage or sin. What horse shit.

    Oh Baby Baby....
    The oneness of our original awareness state is evident when a baby is born. The baby recognizes nothing of its surroundings. As far as the baby is concerned, everything is still oneness – still connected to authentic awareness.

    Let me ask this question. When do we first begin to recognize people, things, the stars and even ourselves? If memory serves correctly, I may have had an inkling of recognition at about 2 or 3 years old. Before then not much seems to have taken place. Actually nothing did take place.

    The reason we can’t remember seeing or hearing anything for the first year or two, or longer, of our physical life, is because it’s not really there. We start to learn the language, learn to interpret the stupidity of our brainwashed parents (I’m a parent of 4 children, so I personally know how stupid a brainwashed parent can be), learn a number system and become indoctrinated in the seductions of the other senses and so the 3D illusion appears real. Then we store a memory bank of events to recall. Add to this the trauma of fear, stress, anxiety and deceit over decades and we become totally hypnotized – convinced this is real. It isn’t real and it never has been!

  9. Hey Chris,

    I saw this boring chick flick with my girl the other night called "Love Happens" starring Aaron Echhart with Jennifer Aniston.

    Certain things about the movie jumped out at me and I thought the movie had some hidden messages about mind control, split personalities, freemasonry and the illuminati. It really amazed me how I would have never noticed this stuff before.

    These hidden themes seem to be in every movie out there.

    What I am wondering is--for the elite and those in "the know" is it possible that the true entertainment lies not in the movie but in the stories within them.
    That by correctly identifying the hidden storylines you actually see it as a different film. So in a way its like hidden entertainment for those that are initiated.

    Think of the all seeing eye as 3D glasses that let them see the "full' picture.

    Kinda like how in some cartoons they make jokes that only adults can understand. Kids watch and have no idea but the parents are cracking up at the meaning.

    Are the masses merely the kids in this equation...

    Thank you as always for your work.


  10. David said..."These hidden themes seem to be in every movie out there.

    What I am wondering is--for the elite and those in "the know" is it possible that the true entertainment lies not in the movie but in the stories within them.

    That by correctly identifying the hidden storylines you actually see it as a different film. So in a way its like hidden entertainment for those that are initiated."

    D* says...David I couldn't have said it better. But they are not necessary hidden themes if they are exposing it in a movie. Since people don't think movies are real life, they think a movie is just a film for entertainment. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

    It's an open way, not hidden, they are telling & showing the actual the truth about how the Elite are killing you and we like it...WTF?

    Yes, all our movies are about 3 basic catagories of what the Elites (or Illuminati some say) are saying to us...

    1) Movies about what they have done to us, history and it's stories mostly made up to manipulate all of humanity. To remind of of a trance state. Note, they follow the LAWS of nature & that's not really good. - Oh for the record, the WTC Attack was a planned LIVE action Movie of the 1st kind, or of deadly-kind (murder).

    2) What technolgy they have and what they can and are presently doing to us. (HAARP is one example)

    3) And what the future holds. They don't have to predict the future, it doesn't exist. but they are simply telling us, what they are going to do to us with arogance! Create a new world order. All the comming disaters. You are seeing it now but you accept it becasue it appears as an occurance of NATURE in the form of earthquake and volcanoes and floods, etc. Well is not all NATURAL!

    I'm not saying all movie are real, just that every one of them have subliminal messages, a splash of truth, accurate prediction of our future and the slavery to be forced on us. Welcome to the new world order folks. See it in your movies first. Just open your eyes.


  11. Great rant, Chris. Another thing about Evangelical Christianity is that their websites are often the best place to find out all about the "dark arts".

    If Christianity is ever going to break out of the hell hole it is in, it will be a rebel sect that interprets the scriptures in a uniquely empowering and creative way. They will promptly be burned at the stake.

    Word veri: elver

  12. You're right, Chris. That's exactly the problem with so-called holy hip hop. Many of the old school R&B artists came out of the church. Not the case with hip hop--and it shows.

    During the middle ages, a ton of Christian art was produced and those works still have the power to inspire and terrify.

    And how about those old religious paintings that actually show UFOs? What did they know? What did they see?

    My issue with Christianity, as it is taught and preached today, is that it fails to spark my science/fringe-loving imagination. It stays away from physics, symbology, etc. Madeleine L'Engle wrote some interesting children's scifi from a Christian perspective, and as a teenager, I was captivated by Salvador Dali's "Crucifixion(Hypercubic Body)." There was also an old movie, "Brother From Another Planet" that was pretty cool. Other than that, not much.

    Religion desperately needs art and architecture. Without it, it's boring, which is too bad. The claims that Jesus made regarding what we're capable of as gods should be inspiring a radical high tech interdisciplinary Christian revolution in everything from science to economics to personal development. And I don't mean using technology to raise money. I mean, science and technology can help explain a lot of what was going on in the Bible and how we should be evolving as powerful, free beings.

  13. Michael- I am not a Christian but I have some hope that there will be a re-awakening of authentic Spirit-filled Christianity if young Christians ever get curious about old-school Quakerism/Shakerism or even take some inspiration from Black churches. Black churches seem to know what the score is, and are as inspirational as ever.

  14. Reverend John Stott ("Basic Christianity") has said: "The great tragedy in the church today is that evangelicals are biblical but not contemporary, while liberals are contemporary but not biblical. We need faithfulness to the ancient word and sensitivity to the modern world."

    Here's a few examples of how to be faithful to the ancient word, yet sensitive to the modern world:


    From Middle Earth to God's creation
    Posted on Dec 19, 2003 | by David Buckna

    Narnia Quiz: The Pop Gospel
    By David Buckna

    By Sol O. Mann

    A Neon Bible Study
    By David Buckna

    Superman As Super Savior
    A quiz...
    By David Buckna

  15. @darkstar888.

    Thank you! What you said makes sense and I am currently checking out your blog. Tons of great info!

    Now that I'm looking at movies through "secret sun eyes" I'm starting to see everything differently. I was always into conspiracy theories but now to be able to make sense of this stuff first hand is really cool (thanks chris). Even looking at ads now and billboards. Its a freakin manipulation nightmare out there.

    I also just want to post a link to a free download of a song-Gallons of Fuel. I'm a musician and this is a song I made a few years back about our dependence on fuel. This crisis in the gulf inspired me to share it. Peace!



  16. Excellent post Chris! (as usual)

    Chris said...
    "We heard an army of Evangelical Britney Spears clones, many of whom were as scantily dressed as the original. But the point is that you can’t Christianize that kind of slut pop..."

    As soon as I read this I thought of Britney Spears' newest single "3".

    On one level it appears to be about having, wanting to have, encouraging people to have a threesome. Yet, one could easily interpret that layer of meaning as simply encouraging you to question the idea, to question if it is right or wrong, urging you to use your own mind to discern what is right or wrong.

    "3" is also very obviously a reference to the Holy Trinity. If you listen carefully the song actually sounds very much like a thinly veiled call for the return of the "messiah".

    Specifically Britney says "Are You In? Living in sin is the new thing.".

    As with Britney's previous single "If You Seek Amy", she is using the pronunciation of a phrase or statement to say a single word. "Are You In" = "R U N". In other words it is as if she is saying "Hey, Messiah, hurry up, Run, the world is living in "sin", and needs you." of course remember she is also sort of questioning what is and is not truly sin.

    In "3" Britney also says "Peter, Paul, and Mary, getting down with 3P". Peter, Paul, and Mary are 3 of Jesus' (a.k.a the "messiah") most well known followers. 3P = 3:16 as in John 3:16 a very clear reference to a "messiah" figure.

    Britney says she no longer studies Kabbalah, and does not currently publicly admit, in plain english, to accepting any specific religious label. But she has stated she does believe in God.

    Simply put, some would describe Britney's music as "slut pop" and others would look deeper and see it more as a new kind of "pop gospel".

    Oh, and of course some who would call it "slut pop" would see the deeper meaning and be using the phrase as a joke, and some would actually mean it in a derogatory sense.

    David Downey, Jr. said...
    "What I am wondering is--for the elite and those in "the know" is it possible that the true entertainment lies not in the movie but in the stories within them.
    That by correctly identifying the hidden storylines you actually see it as a different film. So in a way its like hidden entertainment for those that are initiated."

    Absolutely, you are right on David. I would however say that as far as I am concerned Everyone Everywhere is elite, the only question is whether or not you are "in the know" about it (yet).

    - Love Just

  17. Chris

    re CS Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia there is a very convincing theory which links each of the seven books to the Seven Heavens described in medieval times, which ties in with your point that there is more to the stories than just Christian allegory .
    Go to www.planetnarnia.com to read more about this theory .


  18. Jus, thanks for the laugh.

  19. First, Chris I truly appreciate your blog (this is my first comment)!
    This is a very interesting article. I would state that there are a few examples of genuine, creative expression by other men and women of Christian faith. I would point to Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (an eastern, Orthodox christian) and his books- ONE DAY IN THE LIFE OF IVAN DENISOVICH or THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO. Also, Fyodor Dostoevsky. Perfect examples from his works are THE BROTHERS'KARAMOZOV or THE IDIOT. What is missing in "the Western church", is a richness of symbols that have not been co-opted or stolen from various forms of paganism or other faiths. One may point to Western artists and the challenges that arise are that many of the symbols do not arise from biblical symbols but non biblical, pagan, or occultic ones. In terms of music I would point to the early albums by King's X and though their faith and maybe world view have changed, I would also point to U2's early albums. Also Flannery O' Connor is another writer. I also think, like him or not Mel Gibson. They're are others I could site but these are a few examples.

  20. My favourite Christian sci-fi author is Gene Wolfe. But he deals with his religion in a very veiled, allegorical fashion. (Have you ever read Wolfe Chris? For my money, his Book of the New Sun is possibly the greatest sci/fi fantasy literature EVER produced.)
    The era of Christian literature that draws its materials explicitly from the Christain iconographic corpus, as a Dante or a Milton did, may well be far behind us, as your post eloquently suggests.

  21. i remb a commercial on the dish some years ago...

    xtian rock?

    the tune that caught attention..

    'my god is an awesome god'..

    that's just flaky on so many levels, i won't even bother w/a retort....

    what idjutz... >:)

    but i must admit.. some of these folks are quite scary..
    their lack of musical taste being the least of our worries...
    but, interesting post none the less:)

  22. The interesting thing about U2 is the fact that they nearly broke up, when the Christian denomination that three of the members belonged to, were expecting them to fully commit, and so it became the old battle of secular vrs. religion, which in essence is what others have done a better job of pointing out here.

    I feel the current crisis with Christianity will not be resolved until there's a philosophical war from within to save it, but it will be up to decent, and genuine Christians to be brave enough to make that happen.

  23. I think you guys should read the bible and pray for the lord to guide you. If you read the bible it tells you that there will be many false prophets in the last days. Just because our churches are corrupt and try to preach only those "feel good" messages dosent change one thing about the word of God, only the church and pastor that's preaching it. I a Christian and I agree that the state of most churches is very bad and the lord of the rings or narnia have nothing to do with Christianity or God. Also to the guy that is saying there is no God, only the luciferian agenda, where do you think the name comes from or how it started? Lucifer is the devil. So if he or his agenda is real then you have to know there is a God. If not why do we have moral dilemmas at all? Why aren't we savages like uncivilized people or like animals? You guys should read L.A. Marzulli's blog and comments. I will pray for everyone posting here.

  24. anonymous: You get a lot wrong, but I'll just stick to the one point. "Lucifer" comes from the Latin (predating Christianity), meaning "light-bearer" (and bears direct comparison to the name "Christopher", meaning "Christ-bearer"), and referred to the planet Venus when it rose prior to the sun (as opposed to when it rose in the evening). Later, it was used by some Christians to refer to their principle of cosmic Evil. The connection was apparently made through the concept of the serpent/devil as bringer of the knowledge of good and evil, which was conceived as light in a negative, destructive sense by those Christians.

  25. faoladh, you make a clear point and I add to it. realize that people like anon aove is a moron. Any explaintion we give...he or she won't undferstand. These types people, sheep, will never real read the bible or try see how it full of lies & decpetion it really is. I say this again...all religion is made-up.
    Hey Anon, read the truth below about your precious God & get an education...

    Here’s how it works.

    The name lucifer, means light bringer, or light bearer. The name lucifer is derived from the Latin words, lucem ferre. Lucem means light, & ferre means bringer, or bearer. Lucem ferre is lucifer. Genesis – chapter one of the Old Testament, fills in, without any doubt, who the light bringer is, and who, or what … Lucifer is.

    Lucifer is not the devil, it's the light bringer of the 3D Universe. All that the Devil or Satan is the same as your mind, the deciever. That it, the devil or satan don't exist, they are subliminals to brainwash you with fear.

    Genesis 1:1 & 3 states…’In the beginning god … created the heaven and the earth … god said … let there be light; and there was light.

    We’ve only read up to verse 3, and already, a hypnotic trance has been established. Very few will question that there even is a god, so anything that’s written after these words, is like shooting ducks in a barrel. Interestingly, this same concept of the light bringer, the day star, or the bright and morning star, has been applied to Jesus as well. In the New Testament in Revelation 22:16 … ” we read where Jesus said of himself … ‘I Jesus… I am… the bright and morning star’.

    Fear is the foundational characteristic that allows hypnotic, subliminal, thought, light patterns to be focused … and injected into, … and forced to pass through, our crystal brain. Our human 3 dimensional brain has the same physical characteristics as that of a solid crystal … or prism, except in liquid form. There’s nothing godly, loving, or sweet about this group entity or it’s method of manipulation. For thousands of years, the use of fear and desperation has resulted in murders, wars, bloodletting, and endless disease. Children have been tortured, women have been raped, and men have marched blindly off the end of the plank into the ocean of hypocrisy and death. This has all been courtesy of the god of the Bible, the god of love, the god of the old and new testaments, the god of the koran, the god of Buddha, the god of every religion and intellectual system known to man. This is the god of light, the luciferian light bringer.

  26. DarkStar888: I appreciate your expansion of my short explanation. For myself, I prefer to operate on the assumption that a given person may be able to overcome their ignorance, even though generally that ends up not being the case. I lose little by casting my pearls far and wide, and they don't always land in front of swine.

    You wrote, "all religion is made-up". While this is true, it is less important than it might seem at first glance. Since all meaning ascribed to stochastic reality is "made-up", any description we make of experience falls into the same category. Some religions are better than others in the process of describing experience as opposed to fitting experiences into predetermined, artificially limited categories. Generally, in my experience, book-based religions such as Christianity and Islam tend to be worse (from my perspective of preferring to describe rather than dictate experience) than ecstatic or experiential religions such as Shinto and Voudon.

  27. nice post. long time reader, first time commenter..

    as a Christian, I believe that God is the origin of all creativity, the lack of creativity within "christian" media clearly indicates that God has nothing to do with it.
    when you look further into the financial interests behind the christian media, you will find that it is owned by the same people who bring us fox news et al. and presumably the same screening process is used, before anything is published. bullshit in, bullshit out.
    depsite this, I am inclined to believe that all good things come from the God of unlimited creativity, and therefore whether I am watching the very talented lady gaga, or reading the engaging cs lewis, their talent is all just a reflection of God's creativity.

  28. "Junk religion"

    That's perfect, Chris. ;-)

    As for Miley, I feel sorry for her. She's been controlled by her daddy and Disney for way too long. I wonder if she's able to formulate one of her own thoughts in her pretty little head anymore?

    Evangelical christianity, from which I escaped many many years ago, is one way for the elite to control the masses. Round 'em up and herd 'em into boxes where they are cleverly kept from knowing who they are and where they will also conveniently police one another from any kind of independent or genuinely creative thought.

    Phillip Pullman in His Dark Materials series hit the nail right on the head.

    Pax. Kimberly

  29. Very engaging comments all around. In regard to EVANGELICALISM-as a former member (I'm now a Christian within the Eastern, Orthodox church) of what is truly more a movement, what I will say is that said movement, is now seen by the masses as more of a political one rather than a religious one which it originally seen as (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism)

    I believe this topic is very much related to Chris' article on symbols. Why? because,I believe they're is a poverty of symbols that would clearly communicate Christian faith originally and creatively in Western culture. Also, though there may not be artists vocally and openly sharing their identity as people of Christian faith, they're are good examples of films, books, etc. that show and communicate the validity, power, and importance of FAITH to us a humans. One example is THE BOOK OF ELI.

  30. In regard to the person of LUCIFER. I believe how one responds to the understanding of who this person is, is determined by that person's worldview. What do I mean by this? Well, most Christian and probably Muslim, men and women would respond to and believe LUCIFER to be a negative (to keep it simple "evil")angel. Those who believe Lucifer to be "the bringer of light" to humanity, in a similar fashion to how Prometheus brought fire from the gods to humanity, would see him as a force or person of good, a liberator. The next question then is why would some see this "light bringer" as a negative personage? I have my own views but I will leave this question open for others to seek an answer.

    Now in regard to "religion be made up", I'm not sure what is meant by this statement. Is it that RELIGION is a particular creation to control the masses? Or is it that, it has no grounding in what is true about the universe? Is the theory of evolution or NATURAL SELECTION, as Charles Darwin described it, "made up"? Or is there enough observable evidence in the universe (very much like NATURAL SELECTION), for it to be reasonable and intelligent to hold to a particular faith, whatever that faith may be?

    Lastly, in regard to LUCIFER, one has to clearly state where one gets their beliefs about this personage from. Is it from the Bible or other sources. For me it's difficult for anyone to communicate who Lucifer is from the biblical text, if the Bible is not seen as a trust worthy, legitimate text. An analogy would be, how can I argue who Jesus truly is from the New Testament, if I don't believe the NT is a legitimate, historically accurate text. Or can one trust what the United States Constitution states, if one believes that the Constitution has been rewritten, changed, full of lies, as history has moved forward.
    Most explanations for who Lucifer is (whether that person believes he's good or evil) are argued or explained from the Bible, and then many of these same writers (and I'm not necessarily including any who have commented here) go on to argue that he Bible can't be trusted. Why then use that as your primary source? I see this many times by some who are considered leaders in the "truth movement".

  31. "Junk Religion"

    Interesting post. This has been on my mind as well. Some good points made by some of the comments. Others, maybe gazing the abyss too hard. There is obviously the issue of whether Christianity even has a chance of a future and as many have stated, it would have to come from that creative imagination that is utterly lost to the dogmatic structure of institutions.
    To reclaim your religion is to reclaim the symbols and more importantly understanding those symbols. A big leap that would have to be taken would be to recognize one's own religion for what it is, Mythology. From there it's understanding how a functioning mythology works in a society.
    The idea that, yes, these are stories, has almost become the argument in of itself. To expose the Christ myth is not to invalidate the very ideas, but to shed light on where the symbols point to.
    Does Christianity have a future. Not by the looks of it, but these symbols are embedded in our cultural unconscious, perhaps if there was a way to shed off the dead literal interpretations that has feed us for centuries we might reclaim these symbols and find where they point to, past that, to the source, the psyche, the creative imagination, "where words turn back."

  32. Accepting my faith as a Myth? Hmmm'.Even if done, does that mean that the Myth has no reality in history. Regardless of the SYNCRETISM that has dominated Western Christianity and the belief that the Gospel has it's origins from desperate other sources (as expressed in the movie ZEITGEIST), if one looks there are great examples of artists who are Christian and contemporary, using symbols powerfully:
    Mark Heard
    The Innocence Mission

    Also, symbols are tricky things. As we all have learned here, regardless of the original meaning and intent of the artist, the symbols have an entirely different meanings to different viewers. The pentagram to one person may be positive and to someone else the devil's ultimate sign.

    What this article really shows ultimately and simply is that within Evangelicalism there are many bad artists.

  33. Apostatized and religious-ized Christianity began when Emperor Constantine, ahem... legitimized, thereby institutionalizing, the teachings of Yeshua. The present day form(s) of "Christianity" will now be subsumed into a neo-global religion that is being acculturated as we speak. The "Emergent Church" and all other forms of 'Christian' "Dominionism" are fully responsible for this in their roles as agents provocateur. It is the so-called Christian Dominionist movement that prostitutes itself with the underground streams of the world... all in the name of being "seeker friendly". Sort of like Constantine recycled. No wonder people can't hear the message of Yeshua. No wonder people refuse to.

  34. Definately a good post. It reminds me of the biting criticisms of Christianity from South Park, in the Faith Plus One and Oannes Brothers episodes.
    Christianity's lack of any kind of real talent proves that they haven't any real connections to a superior Creative, all powerful being. Their cultural contributins are just as vapid as their so called faith in whatever they claim to believe. Clearly, America's Christianity is based purely on consumerism, and plays on the stupidity of most Christians to follow anything labeled "Christian" despite its content or lack thereof.
    Your observation of rigid adherence to doctrine stunting creativity couldn't be more true. The faith, for lack of a better word, of any Christian I've known is so shaky that questioning anything only results in fear and anger. And your examples, and also Path of the Pilgrims point of Solzhenitsyn, of any true talent from a Christian community comes from those who chose to distance themselves from organized religion and question its purpose.

  35. Chris you have stirred the hornets nest on this one. The book Racing towards Armageddon by Michael Baigent is a wake up call to the agenda of fundemental xtian's. The insane xtian pie in the sky faith is dangerous and trying to bring about the destruction of the modern world. People who fear Lucifer(knowledge/light) are afraid to look into their own shadows. Evil exist's everywhere and in every myth to such myopic people. Humanity must put aside such infantile fears and live life to their full potential. It is time to dispel such childish fantasy's. The hornets nest has its usual fearful sources, however many great comments I see with heart and understanding. Thanks for the brain food Chris. Dennis

  36. DS, do you know what your name means? The DarkStar is the human heart, which is God and devil. This world is corrupt, yes, but change has to start with the Self. We have to discover our own Secret Sun instead of merely existing as a bundle of sensory impressions.

    Such is, of course, also the truer, nobler side of Christianity, which embodies the universal drama of the human condition. But it is clear that Evangelicism embodies a distinctly Saturnian impulse and is far from the Kingdom.

  37. Wow great responses all to this thread! Kudos on a great article Mr. Knowles. Lots of excellent responses to the usual touchy subject of Religion! Messing with one's psychosis is typically a sure fire way to argument. I'm happy to see that we've all matured enough to have rational discussion about these matters.

    The comment of "Religion" being created for the purpose of mass control was brought up earlier...

    Here's something along those lines that's always sort of bothered my mind...

    WHY, oh why, would an Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent GOD ever create a being that he/she/it would then damn?!?!

    And if GOD is so fallible then why bother to give worship to a fallible being?? Is it out of fear of condemnation?

    And if GOD is NOT fallible and truly Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent then why worry at all? Everything is exactly as it should and was foreseen to be!


  38. Let me just play moderator here and remind folks that this isn't a post about Christianity per se, it's about American Evangelicalism, which is a modern prefabricated simulacrum of a old (though most certainly not ancient) traditional religion. It was created in the 1970s to serve a political agenda not a spiritual one. But it's most certainly been the dominant religious movement in America (and by far the most heavily financed, through both tax dollars and private money) in my lifetime. I think a lot of what see in our culture comes from it- it's changed mainstream culture in ways people may not realize. And that's really what the post is about. America has been made coarser, poorer, less creative, less productive and more aggressive in the years that Evangelicalism replaced traditional Christianity. For instance, the aggressive insistence on dogmatic literalism has decimated American religion-just look at the skyrocketing rates of atheists in America. There is no Christian intellectual tradition left, and much of the blame for that can laid at the door of your local megachurch. This may be why a lot of of traditionalist Christians despise Evangelicalism.

  39. Fanatastic post, Chris. It has elicited some great responses, too. US-style evangelism has made its way to Australia's shores, but it simply isn't the social force that it is in the US (at least, not yet) and when on occasion some of its branches have attempted to reach into Government, there has been a substantial outcry against it. Although things are changing, historically Australian culture has been very suspicious of religious extremism, and there is still an ingrained disrespect for pulpit-thumping and "wowser-ism". That the current Leader of the Opposition in the Australian Parliament is a devout and outpsoken Christian is actually a mark against him for many voters (the fact that the man's also barking mad doesn't help his cause either, but sadly isn't a guarantee that he won't be elected).

    I find the notion of evangelical christians trying to claim Tolkien and C.S. Lewis completely hilarious. Both men belonged to older and deeper traditions, as has already been noted. They were also intelligent and had been educated to a very high standard by a system which, for all its many faults, provided its more privileged members with an excellent grounding in the classics, which by default included some understanding of classical paganism. Personally, reading both Lewis and Tolkien as a child contributed to my own repudiation of traditional chrisitanity in favour of a more shamanic view of the universe.

    Lol, just re-reading Kenneth Grant's The Magical Revival, and i came acros this quotation: "Yet this devil, Satan, is the true formula of Illumination. 'Called evil to conceal holiness', it is desire that prompts man to know himself..."



  40. Artists who expressed their faith (both doubts and affirmations)in their work-
    Graham Greene
    G.K. Chesterton
    Madeleine L'Engle
    George MacDonald

    early King's X

    Artists who incorporate biblical themes, symbols:
    Johnny Cash
    Bob Dylan
    Bruce Springsteen
    Toni Morrison
    William Faulkner
    Cormac Mcarthy
    Al Greene
    Mel Gibson
    Ingmar Bergman
    Andrei Tarkovsky

    I share these examples as people who use Biblical or Christian themes through out different periods of their career. I may wrong here but I get the sense that some may believe that the lack of creativity in many Evangelicals stems from the poverty of their religious faith, i.e. Christianity. I give the above examples to communicate that the lack of creativity within Evangelicalism stems from bad artists not their faith.

  41. As an interesting aside: there were some very interesting musicians within Evangelical movement:
    Larry Norman
    Phil Keggy
    Rez band
    Adam Again
    Randy Stonehill
    Keith Gree
    The Choir
    Daniel Amos
    John Michael Talbot

  42. Off topic but relevant to what the "Sun" promotes here:


    The Sun (Son) "Awakens."

    It's all around us lately in full steam ahead it seems.

  43. LD: yes, I like this trifecta from SpaceWeather.com:


    Can we give love one more chance?

  44. ‘Great art comes from breaking the rules.’

    Maybe so, but I doubt that the Christian music emulating secular music – or the apparent ‘original’ – is particularly concerned with art. Even the so-called ‘transgression’ of contemporary punk or metal is circumscribed by the limits of what either ‘the industry’, self-censorship, or sheer lack of imagination will permit, based on a projected societal threshold. To me, that’s not transgression, and it’s not art either.

    The idea of Christian music is, to me, kinda boring. To limit music to one theme – Christian spirituality – means there’s whole worlds of emotion that won’t be reflected. I suppose there are many innovative artists in different fields whose oevre is on a single theme. But I can’t think of any artistic movement (except for Christian music, which for me is not an artistic movement) that limits itself in this way. There are forms – impressionism, dada, pop, punk, etc., etc. – but they aren’t themes.

    As you pointed out, there is a problem with Evangelical communication. I think the issue might be, instead of its linearity, taking the Word literally. The Tolkien and C S Lewis works are open to allegorical interpretations (apparently Tolkien didn’t dig allegory). If it’s heretical to explore Christian spirituality – the theme of Christian music – through allegory, then there is a further narrowing of scope in its potential to move its audience, because a special way of using words is ruled out.

    None of that will hurt Christian music, though. Just about everything these days has been colonized by marketing, and art’s not a unit shifter. If the moguls think it’s going to sell, then it’s coming soon to a store near you.

  45. Chris wrote: "There is no Christian intellectual tradition left, and much of the blame for that can laid at the door of your local megachurch."

    There is a Christian intellectual tradition, but yes, it's corrupted. (Case in point: Regent University, Liberty University)

    "This may be why a lot of of traditionalist Christians despise Evangelicalism."

    I thought it was the proselytizing and political activism.

  46. All good comments, but it seems no one has touched upon the be-all and end-all of American Evangelicalism: proselytizing, or as I think of it, replicating. This is so important to Evangelicals that they will ditch almost any other values or standards to achieve it. You can imagine that creativity or originality ranks pretty low on that list. Evangelicals would rather blatantly steal and lamify secular cultural memes in order to trick unwary heathens, although I doubt too many are fooled. I know from experience that if you ever reject or criticize anything evangelical on grounds of aesthetic sense or intellectual honesty, the response will be a blank stare from the average American fundie.

  47. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/01/lkl.01.html

    Interview With Lady Gaga

    Aired June 1, 2010 - 21:00 ET


    KING: Oh. There will never be another you either. Let's go to some other areas. You were raised Catholic. You were raised as a Catholic. What are your feelings toward the church and religion in general?

    GAGA: Well, I struggle. I struggle with my feelings about the church in particular. But I guess it's, quite honestly, completely separate, isn't it? religion and the church are two completely separate things.

    But in terms of religion, I'm very religious. I was raised Catholic. I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. I'm very spiritual. I pray very much. But at the same time, there is no one religion that doesn't hate or speak against or be prejudiced against another racial group or religious group, and -- or sexual group. For that, I think religion is also bogus.

    So I suppose you could say I'm a quite religious woman that is very confused about religion. And I dream and envision a future where we have a more peaceful religion or a more peaceful world, a more peaceful state of mind for the younger generation. And that's what I dream for.

    KING: Do you believe you will go somewhere when you pass on?

    GAGA: Do I believe in heaven?

    KING: Yes.

    GAGA: Or hell? I believe I will go to heaven, but I suppose could go either way, couldn't I?

  48. I am evangelical because I believed the evangel which is the good news. When I did Jesus came into my life. Sorry, if you don't get that. He is real.
    Jesus said there would be all kinds of false teachers and apostate followers. That shouldn't surprise us.

  49. Eleleth said...
    DS, do you know what your name means? The DarkStar is the human heart, which is God and devil.

    It goes by many names: Nibiru, Planet X, The Destroyer, Nemesis, Wormwood.

    Some consider this object, which is spoken of in many mythical writings, to be a regular planet in an elliptical orbit. This website explores a bolder idea. The phenomenon known as Nibiru is derived from a binary failed star orbiting our Sun at a great distance. This binary object is a sub-brown dwarf, several Jupiter-masses in size. The other nameit's called is the Dark Star

    and I use 888 for the number of control... DarkStar888 has nothing to do with the Devil (which there is no such thing as the Devil) in this case. :)

  50. WRT Gandalf, my son and I are huge fansd of the book and the film. One thing we joke about is how Gandalf is a wizard who hardly ever uses any spells or magic. We speculate that maybe he's trying to conserve his spells per day (D&D reference) but I always wondered if Tolkien had religiously based scruples on that point. There really is generally very little of the magic that has come to be common in other works of pop fantasy and things (like D&D) based on it.

    Oh, and Jack, I'm convinced. If you assert it, it *must* be true.

  51. Gandalf is Enoch or Elijah, not Christ.

    The idea is that the ring represents the chains of the world, and this little man going to dissolve the ring means that Frodo is Christ, duh.

    Try to remember that the LOTR series is a fiction to illustrate the beliefs of the author, and putting faith into fiction is going to get you in trouble.

  52. StarCherub, i'd be cautious of assuming that Frodo only equals Christ. Although Frodo has Christ-like attributes (his wounds, for instance) Tolkien's deep and lifelong immersion in the Northern myths and legends (and by extension, its pagan religions, too) also imbues the LoTR. Frodo has strong links with Frodi and Frithi (and all their many cognates). In that sense, Frodo means "peace".

    If you haven't already read it, i'd recommend The Road to Middle Earth, by Professor Tom Shippey for an excellent summary of the many mythological sources that Tolkien draws upon in his creation. One particular influence, for instance, was the Finnish national epic, the Kalevala, which inspired Tolkien to try to create a mythology for England, founded very firmly on the folklore and mythology of Northern Europe.

    These themes are at least as strong as the more Christian aspects of the LoTR. Professor Tolkien was a very complex with a personal mythology that encompassed far more than the faith that he professed to in public. His was a mindset that fits very poorly with that of evangelical christianity in any of its incarnations.



  53. Brooke: I heartily agree that Professor Tolkien's conception of the world was incompatible with the frayed patchwork that dominates spiritual understanding among the majority of modern evangelical Christians. That doesn't, however, mean that his worldview wasn't also deeply infused with the assumptions of monotheism in general and Christianity in particular. He certainly found room for the ideas of the northern Europeans, but only in the framework of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-beneficent, universal deity, which he conceived as informing the entirety of existence. That concept in itself is alien to the understanding of those of whose folklore he was fond.

    Now, it is true that this concept, of the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent creator deity is one that has had a significant influence on Western culture in general, but it is not without its dissidents even there.

  54. Fabulous post. I don't have any grand answers, but it's nice to see someone else recognize the derivative nature of evangelical art forms, something I noticed ages ago when I was mired up in it! It's one of the reasons I eventually left the faith, too. If you do believe in a God and you happen to be talented, why should you settle for sloppy seconds? Makes no sense...

  55. Excellent post, the title reminded me of a scene in the season finally of 30Rock, where Kenneth(the resident right wing christian) is drunk/angry making a toast and spitefully says "I'll see you all in heaven!"

    Heaven seems to have become as impotent as hell.

  56. Chris,

    Well done! I must say, as a Christian myself, even though I don't agree with everything you wrote in this EXCELLENT piece, I agree with 99% of it.

    You are tapping into something that only a few Christians see, or are willing to admit to -- hypocrisy!

    The reason for this virus in contemporary Christianity? The prophesied "Apostasy", or the "falling away from the faith"; it's that simple (2 Thessalonians 2:3). It's why I call myself a "Christian" and don't use some man-made label of a man-made sect (i.e. Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Baptists, etc.).

    It's Christians being "of this world" as opposed to merely being "in it" (John 15:19). It's why you can't see anything different between most Christians and non-Christians today. It's why Revelation 18:4 says, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

    Again, nice job here.

    Saved By Grace Through Faith,
    Jeff Radt ("JRed")
    Look Up Fellowship/Right Now Radio

  57. "GAGA: Or hell? I believe I will go to heaven, but I suppose could go either way, couldn't I?"


    "Gandalf is Enoch or Elijah, not Christ."

    the latter, bingo cherub you get the goldstar

    word ver: cultrope

  58. JRed has a good post on this subject. I back up what he is saying about the falling away churches and what is warned of in Revelation. Will have to still check out his website. I found this blog, researching symbols being used out there in apostate churches and finding the mentions of the use of sun symbols in evangelical churches. Mystery Babylon is centered on idolatry-which includes sun worship and the worship of the creation instead of the Creator [Romans 1:25]

    I know this is not a Christian blog, but even non-Christians can pick up on some horrible things happening in evangelical churches. Someone I know told me, they felt like the evangelical world was about "mind control". Well I told them they are considered a "soft target" by those who exploit religion for power and then told them the gospel and to read Jesus's words for themselves in the Bible. These churches playing this music, and following the politicos and hirelings with their religious rallies, are working in opposition to God not for Him.

    More and more of the music, is of the world, and the "Christian" musicians are seeking to copy the secular world in every facet. One is not going to get creative work out of that.

    This idea that one has to renounce everything creative, in being a Christian is false. One can have art and music, that glorifies God, in fact all the luciferian stuff has brought a sameness to it all [the repeating symbols this blog discusses at length] out of the manufactured rebellion for the masses. Some other points, Tolkien and Narnia do not represent Christian beliefs--there is a reason Pan is a positive figure in the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. The "going into the wardrobe" is about altered consciousness. Well don't want to get into this too deep, but every Christian I know who is born again, rejects those books.

    Don't listen to "the devil has the best tunes" logic, and realize how the arts actually have been atrophied.

    There are Christians who discern the music in the churches and played at "crusades" [awful name that]is rotten to the core, insipid and full of false messages. Ive witnessed to myself music in bad churches where the same lyrics are repeated over and over up to 20 times.


    I hope the owner of this blog can reconsider the gospel and realize the world is worshipping another "jesus". He is very knowledgeable about symbols, history and some facets of art. I spent time in the UU church as an unbeliever, and spent years reading things like The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. There are absolute truths out there, it took me time to come to Jesus Christ, via reading Gods Word. [brushing aside the false Dominionism, TV evangelicals and the rest] and realizing those things were in opposition to what Jesus Christ preached.

  59. 'Twas ever thus, BB. It's all the same old game. There were people just like you 2000 years ago and the same kinds of players were running the same kinds of scams. Just try to find peace because you will never find truth. The game was lost a long time before any of us were born.